CREATIONIST (anon): Again XENO, you are a close minded fool. How can you rule out God just because there are similarities between different animals? If you were as smart as you are acting to be, then you would realize that the term associated with differences between animal that share similar traits (ex horse, zebra, etc) is NATURAL SELECTION NOT EVOLUTION. That is what Darwin gave us. Natural Selection. NOT EVOFUCKINGLUTION. And on that note, he barely believed his own theories!! Has anyone here ever actually read Darwin’s On the Origin of Species ??
Anyways, I don’t think any logical person, evolutionist or creationist, is going to argue this fact: Who’s to say God hasn’t done it all to keep us guessing? or hell, for whatever reason. Maybe God put a few different groups of animals on earth, some of which died off, others who survived and became different through NATURAL SELECTION. Obviously this can;t be proven, but neither can the theory of evolution. They are both acceptable theories, the creationist views making much more sense though. Evolution has been blown ridiculously out of proportion considering the actual lack of evidence that exists in its favor. I could go on for days with examples. If your interested, go study some genetic composition charts which compare the different makeups of a specific gene segment which exists throughout species. It is the same gene from which you hear the claims that humans and a specific species of monkey, the rhesus monkey, are only 99% different. They base that claim on the charts which i mentioned, which indeed show that there is only a very small difference in humans and the monkey in the construct of the gene used for comparison. However, the same chart shows incongruity in the evolutionary theory that for example bacteria evolved into plants, then into other beings which diversified into what we have today, humans, birds, trees, etc. (obviously that is a very simplified example of the “evolutionary chain.”) However, the problem is that using the same comparison carts used to show the close makeup of us and the monkeys, we find that the genetic makeup between a bacteria and wheat plants is the same % difference as the same bacteria and a fish, for example. That would suggest that a fish and wheat plant are in the same general range of complexity when compared to a bacteria?! NOOO! You know that’s not true. Go look up those charts, see for yourself, if I can find a link online to them, I will post it, otherwise go to your local library or college and ask for there most recent genetic comparison journals.
And no XENO, i do not doubt in the existence of everything you mentioned(mRNA, etc) but who is to say that God is not behind that as well? I am not saying I can prove that, just that you are a fool to rule out the possibility. I mean, comeon! It’s something we humans discovered, and we are nothing compared to God.
And yes, I know the freakin definition of psychobabble, I was using the term to show that your text and points are full of terms which alot of people will not understand, at least not fully, thus they will more than likely just follow what you are saying as though you knew exactly what you are talking about and as if you were some sort of expert. You KNEW WHAT I MEANT when i said psychobabble. Jack@ss.
And excuse me for being rude, that’s not normally me, but people like you piss me off.
EVOLUTIONIST: Anon, I hope you are having a better day today.
My Christian friends have a bad habit of passing false information to each other without checking facts. Your statement about Darwin is an example. Darwin believed his own theories. You are just repeating a hoax known as the Lady Hope Story.
That evolution occurs is an observed fact, like gravity. The explanation for the specifics of how it happens is a theory. Natural selection is the theorized process by which species evolve. Check out the Understanding Evolution site.
Regarding the % of genetic differences between bacteria, wheat plants and fish, please provide a link. I think you may just be reading the data wrong, but lets take a look.
There is an interesting difference in our philosophies. Unlike you, I do not revere “experts” because in my world view all humans hold many flawed beliefs due to blind spots in human logic. This includes our parents, poets, priests and politicians. The truth is in the details, not the credentials of the messengers.
CREATIONIST (anon): Well, i dont have a long time to type, so i’ll try to kkep it short and sweet. my question, was have you read darwins book? and dont call chrisitans unintentional liars. I have checked the facts. I didn’t believe it when i first heard, i had to find out for myself. How can you compare evolution to gravity? thats silly. I will try to find my paper on this subject so i can get you that chart. and believe me my friend, i know plenty of about the “blind spots of logic” that you mentioned?but why do you find yourself so invincible to the same? Just FYI, my main point is not to prove myself right. i accept that i could be wrong. i just want you to accept the same thing and stop prancing around like you KNOW the things you say to be true.
EVOLUTIONIST (xeno): So far only Christians have attacked my points using hoaxes as evidence. If Christians are in fact excellent fact checkers, then I’d be forming a wrong conclusion based on too small a sample size.
Evolution, gravity, death, taxes, these are all things that exist. They are observed facts. How can you deny your own senses? Did you read about Cynognathus, or not? Have you looked at the evidence showing the fact of evolution? It isn’t as “in your face” as gravity, but it is as obviously real. If you believe my logic is flawed, please point out why. If you are correct, I will stand corrected. Like you, I accept that I could be wrong. Gravity may not work tomorrow and I might float up to the moon. But I doubt it. The Devil may have put bones of transitional species in the ground to mislead people about the bible. But I doubt it.
My University evolutionary biology text books included only snippets, but the Origin of Species is available for anyone to read on line. Since it’s 193,000+ words were written between 1859 to 1872, I’m not keen to wade through them. But I’ll use ReadPlease to have it read to me ASAP. You are right, I should read the whole thing.
I think perhaps the reason you are asking if I’ve read Darwin is that you imagine that science works like religion, where someone says something and it gets passed on as gospel for hundreds of years? If so, that’s not how science works. Darwin is not our Jesus. Darwin made claims, which were tested, not accepted on faith. So, what he said exactly in the 1800’s, isn’t that important. What matters is that he pointed out something about the natural world which still tests out as true over 130 years after he wrote it. Many other scientists after Darwin added supporting evidence based on their own testable observations.
COMMENT (Methinks): Xeno – Never argue evolution with a creationist, in thier make belief world, there is an answer for most everything and if they dont have an answer then it is just one of Gods mysterys, how can you win. Even if you could prove evolution with out a doubt to them, they will just say God invented it or the devil is behind it, which may be true, who knows. Even if God himself came down and proclaimed evolution a fact, they would say he was the devil pretending to be God. Dont waist too much time with these people, we need to concentrate on educating their kids so they do not breed too much ignorance into the world.
EVOLUTIONIST (xeno): Thanks for the comment Methinks. I believe you are mistaken because I started out as a creationist. While there are certainly some zealots out there, most of my creationist friends are logical people who have just never been exposed to the evidence for evolution. Your point is funny, however. I think the same thing about aliens. If an alien came down and visited me I’d need a lot of proof that it wasn’t someone in a costume or some kind of trick.
CREATIONIST: The world we live in is imperfect. It is entropic. All states of energy and complexity have a tendency to be driven toward an en-energetic balance, order to chaos. Batteries drain, rivers flow to the sea, language simplifies over time, motion slows, heated food cools, living creatures die, data eventually corrupts, sunlight breaks down complex molecules into simpler ones, and sometimes, the fine masterpiece that is the human being, suffers a defect at or after conception.
It’s not the fault of God, nor do I see it the work of evil forces. It is simply a state of imperfection. The universe we live in fails us in every moment that time passes. Some erroneously blame it on God. We simply live in an imperfect universe, and as a Christian, I believe this is a fate that humans chose when we failed to follow the rules. It was not forced upon us. I believe the universe was altered to become entropic, or an external force restricting or regulating entropic decay was removed. I know many don’t take the bible seriously, but it has interesting lines. Revelation 7:16,17 KJV states “They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.”
This is interesting to me, because I believe it describes “heaven” as a place where entropy does not exist. The key statement is that there is no heat. That such an ancient text would describe place that is supposed to be a place of eternal peace and joy and whatnot, it seems odd they would call it a “cold” place. Cold evokes a deep chilling pain, fear of freezing to death, etc. But it’s not “cold” that’s described, but rather, a lack of heat. A lack of heat, because of a lack of thermodynamics, a lack of entropy. This is how I interperet these words.
I know some will mock me, others will find it intriguing. I imagine the 2 posters below will likely have words. But I’m fine with that. They have both made this thread their personal playgrounds, so I only feel fair in countering.
Xeno, you are the reason for my little diatribe. Your only reason for being here seems to be only to preach your religion of evolution. As far as I have observed in my life, evolution is based in abused science, bending the scientific method where it is convenient, and frequently overlooking or suppressing inconvenient facts. Many scientific “facts” that still exist in textbooks and in the scientific community can be easily argued against, some even being proven hoaxes or false already. The scientific method is often broken on evolution. Any one factor that evolution depends on, when disproven, breaks the complex mechanism that drives the so called “evolutionary process”. Evolutionists will argue that any one of these facts will prove evolution. Likewise, they’ll reverse the whole process on competing theories, claiming all factors must be proven true before they would ever acknowledge an alternative to evolution.
Piltdown Man, The Miller/Urey experiment (amino acids formed from basic organic compounds), geologic anomalies have all been examples of hoaxes, flawed experimentation and assumptions, or just outright unexplained. I can argue till I die, and so can the evolutionists. I can only speak my voice and home someone hears it and listens.
At least I spoke my mind to counter all the other stuff being spouted here.
Evolution is just another religion, one that has it’s devoutly biased and faithful believers, and places a twisted science as an all powerful god.
EVOLUTIONIST (xeno): Nice to meet you and I’m glad you are enjoying my blog.
Piltdown Man hoax of 1912 was, in fact, discovered to be a hoax by scientists. That’s the point, scientific method works and it is a process of growth. Not every step is forward. Scientists, like evolution, like technology, take steps backward to move forward.
The Miller/Urey experiment is not a hoax, but the conditions it used may not have existed on the early earth. Nevertheless, amino acids do exist in space and have been recovered from meteorites. NASA created amino acids in deep space conditions back in 2002. The amino acids where still on Earth, so does it matter if lightning hitting a chemical soup or meteors hitting the planet were the source?
Evolution is an observed fact. The process really happens! New species have been observed in our lifetime and species have become extinct in our lifetime as well.
Anyway, Christians ( I once was one, btw ) were once convinced the Earth was the center of the solar system, that children who curse their parents should be put to death, and other strange things. Even Christianity is evolving.
READ: Evolution / Creation Debate (Part 3)