Black Hole Swallows the Earth: 9/10/2008?

By | September 7, 2008

Many experiments go wrong. If the Big Bang Machine experiment goes wrong, the entire Earth could disappear in a nanosecond this coming Wednesday, 9/10/2008.

If we all survive and the experiment goes right, however, we might understand how the entire universe was created.

The most powerful physics experiment ever built, the Large Hadron Collider will re-create the conditions just after the Big Bang in an attempt to answer fundamental questions of science and the universe itself.

On September 10th, CERN – the largest centre of particle physics research in the world, will switch on the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) and in the process begin arguably the most ambitious science experiment ever undertaken. This “Big Bang Machine” will recreate conditions just a billionth of a second after the big bang and in the process may answer some of the most profound questions about our universe and how it all began.

By smashing particles together at speeds 99.99% the speed of light, scientists hope to answer some of the greatest mysteries in particle physics. What is mass? What is dark matter – the invisible but massive substance that fills the universe? Why is there no antimatter ? Are extra dimensions and parallel universes science fact rather than science fiction? – bbc

Personally, before the end, I had hoped for a big discovery like: Aliens, Bigfoot, Chupacabras, ESP, cold fusion, Time Travel, etc.

What have I been doing to prepare to be consumed by a black hole? Cleaning mostly. No, of course it won’t matter. You?

Here is a bit of trivia. What is a hadron?

In particle physics, a hadron … is a bound state of quarks. Hadrons are held together by the strong nuclear force, similar to how atoms are held together by the electromagnetic force. The best-known hadrons are protons and neutrons. – wiki

In case the end is near, so long. We had fun, didn’t we? Thanks for reading my blog.

PS. Perhaps we will all emerge in another universe as we are ejected from a white hole somewhere.

UPDATE:

It would have been 1:36 AM our time today. That’s when they turned it on, but actually, “It will be weeks or months before two particles ever crash together in the giant tube” – news.au I found this comment on another site interesting:

“The Mayans wrote that the end of the world is on December 21, 2012. The Chinese I Ching also predicted it….on the same day. The Greek Oracle Sybil predicted it on that day too. So did the alleged “real Merlin”, who told shocking stories of the future to the locals. “‘Anything between a year and four years, depending on how difficult this new physics is to find,’ Mr Engelen said.” Four years! 2008+4=2012. Its September right now! Maybe this machine could cause the end of the world.”

So, we may have weeks, months, or even years left before every molecule on Earth is sucked through a horrendous man-made orifice the size of a mosquito.

OH WOW. I hope I’m wrong, but I think I’ve seen this thing coming. I finally understand a freaky dream I sometimes have. I’ve had nightmares about this once in a while, ever since I was a kid. I never knew what it was until now. In my dream, I am faced with an infinitely small noise, a pin point, something real, something smaller than anything but also more powerful than anything I’ve ever known, a killer. It is very cold. Infinitely cold. I’ve always described it to people as “a noise that is an incredible cold pin-point pressure pushing in on itself” but I never thought of it as a real thing outside of my dream. Has anyone else had this dream??

Recommendation: Pool parties. Enjoy this time, because the odds are unlikely that our space travel capabilities for ordinary citizens will allow us to go to another planet before this happens. No escape. Oh well. No one gets out alive anyway.

54 thoughts on “Black Hole Swallows the Earth: 9/10/2008?

  1. Xeno Post author

    Agreed. We may very well survive. Probably. Here is the concern:

    The big concerns from watchdogs like Walter Wagner and Luis Sancho earlier this year, and the more recent and final hurdle, a collaborative effort by a group of concerned scientists overturned by the European Court of Human Rights in late August, reside in the unknowns. While the safety experts indicate that any potential black holes produced would be much smaller than those known to astrophycists, that unknown potential is exactly the complaint by the concerned parties. -link

  2. Jennifer

    Hmph..I’ve Read About This.
    It Was Nice While It Lasted.
    I Personally Hate The Idea Of This, And Think It May Go Wrong :

  3. lordhaxor

    Noone really knew what would happen if the atom bomb was fired in the atmosphere. People thought that the bomb would ignite the atmosphere itself and eradicate an lifeform on the surface. Same again for the LHC. Sure there is the possibility that some very rare and improbable condition will result in a disastrous effect, but that is science. Everyday biologists and chemists work with extremely infectious material; some of which could probably mean the end of humankind if it was released from containment. But noone is talking about that. I say, let it happen and see what comes out of it. That is the nature of humans and that is exactly what gave us the ability to even build somthing like the LHC. Without that, we would still sit in caves and hope for the next pray to stroll by.

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  5. Jay12 (UKAuthors)

    It’s out of our hands. They are going ahead and doing it – which suggests its safe. After all these big brains aint gonna wanna destroy the ground they walk on are they! It’s all hype. They’ll get the results they need and we’ll all sit down in a few months to watch “The Men Who Made A Black Hole” on Channel 4 only to find out it was a black hole in theory that existed for only 1 billionth of a second. I’ll watch it through the usual haze of Stella and crisps.

  6. John

    How about this, God lets whacked out scientists blow themselves up in their effort to get passed, “In the beginning God….”

  7. Pingback: Pamela Anderson and Black Holes (Aren’t They the Same Thing?) « In the Stars

  8. Chris

    This is all bull how can ANYONE copy 99.99% the speed of light. This is probably another scam like how people say 2012 will end. It definitely won’t end 2012 an it definitely wont’ end tomorrow. God decides that.

  9. Lori

    The world ending, huh? Well, we all knew it would happen eventually. I just hope I don’t die while I’m in class. Though I want an ironic death… Anyways, who knows? We maybe lucky and the machine doesn’t work at all, or it works, and just doesn’t blow us all to smirtherines. Either way I don’t care what happens, I’m more interested to see what’s beyond this life, that is if it has to end so soon.

    Besides, it’s us who decides what happens, or the scientists at least, not God. Either way we die by our own hands, or wait for a meteor to crush us in 2012. Or maybe we’re lucky, this generation lives and it’s the next that perishes…Who knows?

  10. Stuart

    why does everybody say that God decides all this shit?

    scientists have found evidence how the world was created

    its not like some guy said: ”hey lets make a world”

  11. Rachel

    lol an hour and a half till the the world dies….

    i dont think its gonna happen though.. like seriouslyy.. as if they would risk something like that..

    🙂

  12. Zerosignal

    One of my favorite quotes can handle all the god comments. “What if God doesn’t care?” – Corey Taylor.

    Whatever happens is out of our hands. People look at death as a terrible thing, but if the world ends, no one will be left to see it as a bad thing. Maybe the world can finally unite in something, for once. Once and for all that is.

    But this whole thing has had me a bit paranoid. I keep thinking, will this be the last sandwich i enjoy? Will this be the last song i listen to? If so, would i be satisfied with what i’ve done up until now? I’m not sure, but ultimately, we’ve all done what life allowed us to do. Maybe they’ll find out lots of things and everything will be fine, or better than fine. Maybe we’ll find out all of life’s answers today. I’d say it’s a worthy gamble: it’s literally all or nothing.

  13. xenia

    This will go wrong! God will never let us know how the entire universe was created. Think about that in the Bible… with Babels tower….he didn’t let people do that either. And he mixed up the peoples language so they couldn’t find out so much. Why are we people playing with God?! think about this and pray!

  14. Dan

    People are forgetting what would happen if it was a success and how the earth was made. It willdisprove god and everything that religon stands for and people will get pissed so success or not success either way its gona be a bad out come

  15. Billy

    WTF… if it was really gonna happen it would have happened today 10 AM like it was supposed to. it would take that fucking long to spread to the us. or is it 10 PM?…. any way it’s bullshit.

    However, it would be a really sweet way to die. and if it was a black hole, the earth would take like 5 hours to wipe out and everyone would be sucked through to space/ time continuum. therefore everyone one would die.

  16. Xeno

    No, not really. It would have been 1:36 AM our time. That’s when they turned it on, but actually, “It will be weeks or months before two particles ever crash together in the giant tube” – news.au I found this comment on another site interesting:

    “The Mayans wrote that the end of the world is on December 21, 2012. The Chinese I Ching also predicted it….on the same day. The Greek Oracle Sybil predicted it on that day too. So did the alleged “real Merlin”, who told shocking stories of the future to the locals. “‘Anything between a year and four years, depending on how difficult this new physics is to find,’ Mr Engelen said.” Four years! 2008+4=2012. Its September right now! Maybe this machine could cause the end of the world.”

    So, we may have weeks, months, or even years left before every molecule on Earth is sucked through a horrendous man-made orifice the size of a mosquito.

  17. 11milamber

    Oh well.. que sera sera… whatever will be, will be.. the future isn’t ours to see.. lol… just enjoy the few minutes of your life..

  18. kataztrophy

    I’ll say this before it’s too late: science has failed us once more. It will be a delayed flub, count on it. This thing isn’t even at full power yet.

  19. jackie

    ya right. look , someones trying to scare us. we can u know , create black holes. but i beleive the world has a designated death date, and only god can change that. and hes a little more creative than british scientists or french or watev.

  20. openbytes

    LOL, Well if the “End of the world” people had read the news properly, they would have realized that there are not to be any collisions yet, so its not going to create a black hole anyway.

    Ive just done a little piece on my blog about this. Here in the UK we already have a black hole more frightening than anything the Hadron machine could make, its the financial black hole otherwise known as the 2012 Olympics.

    If the Hadron Collider does create a black hole in the next few weeks, at least the UK taxpayer wont have to foot the bill for the Olympics.

  21. Ann

    If end comes in a few days or weeks, let’s look at the bright side:

    We don’t have to worry about McCain’s domestic policies (if he has any) or even whether he becomes president or not. We don’t have worry about the ongoing human loss in the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan nor do we need to worry about a possible war with Iran or a conflict with Russia. We don’t have to worry about the tension between Bush’s administration and Venezuela or the rest South America for that matter. We don’t have to worry about the carcinogens creeping into our degrading environment from our industrial neighbors, or the loss of near pristine wilderness areas to the highest industrial bidder, or problems with institutional racism, the loss academic freedoms, or the official neglect of poverty, illness and suffering in our own cities around the world. And, Xeno won’t have to read my comments any more! So, ironically enough, for some of us the end might not be a bad thing.

  22. Middletown BMX

    well Im only 15 and things are goin pretty good for me for once so I can only hope i make it to 30 years old which might or might not happen i just hope so.
    stupid ass science to help the world….FUCK science its why i failed 7th grade….it will definetely go…boom or make black hole…which will be cool but…NOOOOOOO ITS SUCKIN ME IN

  23. openbytes

    The only black hole is the one between the ears of anyone who thinks that this experiment has ANY chance of causing problems. Take a look for a minute at the world we live in.

    Nearly every food product has “may contain nuts” on it, just incase of a slim chance it does and someone has an allergic reaction. Wet floor signs, mind your head signs, strobe lighting signs, the list goes on. We live in a world where there is a warning sign slapped on everything, just incase someone might want to sue. and people are worried that governments would allow an experiment that could destroy the world?

    As Stephen Hawkin said, these collisions happen in our own atmosphere all the time. I think the worst case scenario will be a failed experiment and a waste of money.

  24. Ann

    Dear openbytes,

    I don’t want to disillusion your faith in “governments” (you said, “people are worried that governments would allow an experiment that could destroy the world?”) but some day you’ll have to awake up and smell the carcinogenic petrochemicals in the air.

    Let give you an example (and our government was well aware of the danger as our President at time, at least his scientific advisers, was well posted on the events). During first controlled chain reaction at University of Chicago, the scientists working on the project were not sure, although they made numerous calculations, of the exact size of the critical mass that should not be exceeded to avoid an atomic explosion, that is, an uncontrolled chain reaction. In fact, we know now their calculations were definitely wrong, but because of their crude, to our standards today, technology there was no explosion. The people of Chicago were just plain lucky that there was no explosion; it was not because of the knowledge of scientists or governmental oversight. Our government only wanted to win a war, which it was deeply involved in, at the time, and they needed a powerful bomb.

    This site

    http://www.3rd1000.com/nuclear/cruc18.htm

    gives a pretty good account of the events back then.

    If you another more recent example of the supposed wisdom of our government, you might consider any one of a number of carcinogenic chemicals manufacturers are allowed to spell into our waterways or spew into the air.

    You this is what “deregulation” is all about. It started with Reagan and has continued since then. Our government has allowed big business and large corporations to do just about what they want, like give us cancer. After all, we don’t have to worry about that disease to develop in our bodies for years after we’re exposed.

    See what happens when you encourage me, Xeno, but thank you!

  25. openbytes

    Ok, Ann. Youve done something that not many people manage to do, youve shown me the bait, Ive bitten and youve hooked me in.

    Your viewpoint is typical of those people who have a little “half knowledge” and decide to preach it to the rest of the world as if it was fact. Its this type of view that has people believing theres aliens in Area 51, Mr Oswald didnt shoot the president and global warming is the fault of mankind.

    You said “the scientists working on the project were not sure, although they made numerous calculations, of the exact size of the critical mass…”

    I think the keywords in that are “not sure” thats not the case this time around. We are sure. Its the public who cant get their heads around particle physics who are “not sure”

    I wont even justify “Our government has allowed big business and large corporations to do just about what they want, like give us cancer” as firstly I am not sure which “big business” you are refering to. Is it the tobacco trade? or is it asbestos roofing insulation? or something else? and secondly its a completely different argument, if as you suggest the Government is self serving, why on earth would they risk destroying the thing they are exploiting?

    “If you another more recent example of the supposed wisdom of our government, you might consider any one of a number of carcinogenic chemicals manufacturers are allowed to spell into our waterways or spew into the air.”

    Yep and balance that with the investment that governments over the years have made into medical research. 100 years ago there may not have been carcinogenic chemicals in the water, but in those days people died of curable diseases. Its all a balance. Mankind is living longer on average than 100 years ago so we must be doing something right, bring on the chemicals then.

    Going back on topic, theres been some crackers of theories on the net. Apparently the Miyan calender ends in 4 years, very conveniently for a switch on of the Hadron Collider.

    Without going into Physics and explaining why it is safe (as I dont have the energy and Ive a feeling im talk to a 90% closed mind group), let me just say for all the people who think Governments are run by these shady characters who dont care about the planet and have held back the everlasting energy source they found at Roswell. Get a grip! If you needed brain surgery and you had the choice of it being done by a Surgeon or someone who had read a few articles on the subject, who would you trust?

  26. Ann

    Wow! Talk about stereotyping people (as in putting people into a supposedly demeaning category) “people who have a little “half knowledge”, “and decide to preach it to the rest of the world” and “people believing theres aliens in Area 51, Mr Oswald ….” Then later, you mention “Miyan calendar” and “Roswell.” This is funny! You can’t be serious. If you are, this is dangerous.

    By grouping me into those who have these thoughts, which you feel are silly, you’re placing yourself in a more exalted position. I don’t think I was talking about UFOs, the Kennedy assassination or the end-time, but you appear to give yourself credit to know my very thoughts or feelings (!?) about things I didn’t even mention. Be careful this approaches delusion and that is a possible symptom of perhaps other, more deeper problems. I don’t think you could possible distinguish me from Adam’s goat, other than perhaps to recognize the species difference – I hope!

    Now closer to the crux of the matter: I referred you to a site that talked about the ignorance of “particle physicists” at the time when the U.S. was involved in a war. I referred you to that information to give an example how U.S. government’s interest at the time was to win a war above the interests of the people of Chicago. If you had read the information at that site, you would find that it occurred in the 1940s. I don’t know where you got “100 years ago.”

    A Rachael Carson wrote “Silent Spring” in the late 1950s. She was one of several people who brought to the attention of the public, mind you, about the relationship of chemicals, specifically DDT and health. It was not the government or industry who did anything to protect people from harm. It was because of Carson and others like her at the time who brought their information to the attention of the public and then the government responded. I’m sure you read how DuPont has known for a long time that Teflon is dangerous to our health, but it was not until recently did they admit they knew its harmful effects, i.e. after that information became public. Why didn’t DuPont warn people about the possible hazards of their product? Do you suppose it’s because they don’t want people NOT to buy their product? Do you suppose it’s because DuPont’s goal is to make profit above all else, even the health of its clients and customers?

    It was in early 1980s that medical journals, beginning with The New England Journal of Medicine, began telling its contributing authors to acknowledge “conflicts of interest.” Why? Because, among other issues, the pharmaceutical industry, at this time, began funding a lot of academic research (thanks to Reagan’s budget cuts, government funding for academic research was decreasing), and it so happens pharmaceutical-industry-funded research, more often than not, turn out to favor of the sponsor’s drug that scientists were investigating. Why? Hmmm I wonder. You don’t suppose money, funding, slants scientific results do you? Well, at least the editors of The New England Journal of Medicine and nearly all other medical journals thought it did. But, still, if you read the medical literature on this subject today in both England and the United States there is still a problem with industry funded research despite acknowledged conflicts of interest.

    Now you can be an industrial apologist and favor, say, the use of DDT and Teflon. And, say it takes a whole lot of these chemicals to cause cancer. And, you can find on the net some folks to agree with you, especially among those people who argue spraying DDT in the Third World is better than the scourge of malaria. There’s even a book on that very topic. But, they will not deny the carcinogenic properties of DDT, nor will the people who support the use of Teflon products. That would be an all too obvious lie. And, furthermore the DDT supporters will not tell you that the Anopheles mosquito, the carrier of malarial microbe, develops a resistance to DDT, which means they’ll have to use greater quantities of the stuff more frequently for better results, which means greater harm to those people exposed.

    Now, do I have to tell you about the FDA and its relationship with the pharmaceutical industry? I hope I don’t have to. There’s way too much information about all that in the press. And, I’m sure you heard about drugs being called off the market, and the money paid out by pharmaceutical industry due to litigations over the past 30 years.

    I can refer you hundreds of sites (many from Associate Press releases) on the internet about this and more information about the industrial products, but apparently you’ll not read them. Instead, allow me to inform you the three ways industry influences government in their self interest, which means in their interest in making a profit, above all else, which they are legally bound to do for the sake of their stockholders and stakeholders.

    First, of course, are campaign contributions. If I give you two hundred thousand dollars, I’m sure you would help me out of a bind, if need be. Second method is by lobbying Congress and the government. The amount spent here is incredibly enormous and each major industry in the United States pays millions of dollars in lobbying each year. And, third and most sneaky is through “think tanks.” This is not, mind you, a “conspiracy.” You can read about all this in academic journals if you like. Foundations, such as the Heritage Foundation, the Manhattan Institute and American Enterprise Institute (AEI)is funded by Olin Foundation, which funded by corporations, and others as well as by corporate dollars themselves. These think tanks write books (remember Charles Murray’s “The Bell Curve”? It was brought to you by AEI) not only for public dissemination but also to the government to influence Congressmen and other political elite; they hold conferences, seminars, dinners and luncheons for politicians and political elites; sponsor literature hold press rallies for that literature which favor their interests, which means their funder’s interest But, you will not see corporate dollars go to the Institute of Policy Studies, because they, to put it crudely, want to corporations interests to lie below the interests of the people.

    See, the point is, we live in a supposed democracy and in that democracy corporations have, over the last 100 years, gained the same rights as individual citizens, despite their overwhelming capabilities and resources. And, at the same time, for the benefit of stockholders corporations are bound above all else, including the health and well-being of even their clients, to make a profit.

    My apologies for this rather crude and quick response, but I hope you understand my argument a bit better and not stereotype me. That’s insulting.

  27. lordhaxor

    And your, mr. Openbytes, are very open minded and a logical scientist, yet you show all the stereotype signs of a narrowminded yay sayer.

    Just two things, anyone saying, that mankind has no impact on the clima is in my eyes simply stupid (and you call yourself a scientist). How big the impact is, is totally another topic, but we do have an impact on it. Second, you say: Without going into Physics and explaining why it is safe (as I dont have the energy and Ive a feeling im talk to a 90% closed mind group) Noone can say it is 100% safe. And for you to say it is 100% safe shows clearly, that you arn’t a scientist. Nothing is 100% sure in physics. There could always be flaws in theories and miscalculations, yet you say it is safe. If you would say, it is quite safe, very safe or something the like you would have a point, but you didn’t. Our understanding of physic is based on what we see around us and theories we deduct from those observations. Who are you to say, that those observations are the only right ones and there couldn’t happen something totally different, when conducting such an experiment? That is in my eyes fundamentalism and not a bit better then christian or islamic fundamentalism. You just think, you have the only truth, as you deduct it by logic, but you can’t be sure.

    Oh and if it wasn’t for the “conspiracy theorists” some corporations would still employ child workers and more. Corporations do tend to cover up their wrong doings. And no, I am not against big multinational trusts, e.g. many pharmaceutical corporations did great things, yet there are some who break laws while doing that and that has to stop.

    Stopping now, is i don’t think i make too much sense anymore. What i actually wanted to say is, Openbytes, get down from your high horse and see, that your eletist and superior intellect is just another form of religious believe. If you are truely open minded, you can let have others their opinions and not push them into stereotypes. Scientists are no supreme beeings, they are just humans.

    Greetings

  28. openbytes

    lordhaxor. thanks very much, Ill come to you in a minute.

    Ann, You have done yourself and me a great disservice by not reading my post properly. Thankfully it still remains here, so I can quote it. You claimed I said that “decide to preach it to the rest of the world” and “people believing theres aliens in Area 51, Mr Oswald ….” Then later, you mention “Miyan calendar” and “Roswell.” This is funny! You can’t be serious. If you are, this is dangerous.”

    Well Ann, I did, but if you had read it properly you would have seen I actually said “its this type of view” note the keyword there Ann? “type”. The ethos of my post was obviously lost on you, as I maybe foolishly believed that the comment I made about the Miyans highlighted the stupidity of posts made on a half knowledge. Maybe that part was lost on you, and maybe I underestimated the level of reasoning that the regular readers here have. If thats the case I am sorry.

    The 100 years ago comment (and now I am confused as to how you get mixed up with my coherently worded first post) I thought was obvious. Its not, so Ill explain what I was saying in simple form, then you can go back re-read it and hopefully understand.

    You originally mentioned about chemicals in the water etc causing cancer, I merely made the observation that these chemicals were not present 100 years ago, and in those days people died earlier on average than they do today (simply saying, if there are chemicals in the water now, and we are living longer than we ever have in human history on average, surely we cant be all bad as a society, and those chemicals are really a moot point)

    I hope you dont mind if I dont pick holes in every sentence you’ve written, I am short on time tonight. But let me just qoute a few comments you made:

    “much information about all that in the press”
    “Rachael Carson wrote “Silent Spring” in the late 1950s.”
    “There’s even a book on that very topic”

    Now what strikes me as a common theme throughout your post, is the fact that you base your entire theories about the Hadron Collider on what you have read (or think you have) that is very different to understanding particle physics and having an experience of it. If I went back in time 200 years and showed someone a TV they would probably be scared, this would be due to lack of understanding, and whilst the Hadron Collider is not as an extreme example, the people that are doing the scare mongering are basing their theories from half knowledge (as I said before)

    Now you are probably wondering, what job does Mr Openbytes do (Ann doesnt like stereo typing lordhaxor, so dont presume Im male, as I say, I will come to you shortly.) No my job has nothing to do with science, no I do not work for the government……..So what does MR (ok Lordhaxor your stereo type was correct this time) do?

    I am a Uni Grad with a Physics background. working as a coder for a software house. Just about as far from having an interest in government policy as you can get.

    I didnt think your post was “….crude and quick response”, it just appeared to me that you either hadnt read or hadnt understood my previous post.

    I hope this is clear now.

    Right Ill now move onto our anti stereo typing Lordhaxor , who presumed just because I had an interest in particle physics I had to be a man. and he has the cheek to say I stereotype?

    More to follow.

  29. openbytes

    Right Lordhaxor, I continue with you. Ill start by saying I like a good debate, but in your first few lines of reply destroyed and hope of being taken seriously by me. At least in Ann’s case she seems to be coming from an angle of influence from hearsay, you seem to do that and then go on to slip up on your own mis-quoting. Ill explain.

    Lordhaxor, the debate is above people coming from a half knowledge and in that “making up facts to suit their own ends” you my friend proved that on your second line, by saying that I was claiming to be a scientist. Where did I say that? Ive only just told you my career (as per previous post) and yet you claim incorrect facts. If you cant even get a simply reply right, what makes you believe anyone will take any opinion you have on particle physics?

    Secondly, or maybe firstly, both you and Ann dont seem to like stereo types or in your case people who are narrow minded, yet you presumed I was male. Why was that? Was it because in your mind a female could not possibly be interested in particle physics? You dont have to answer that, but you know yourself the answer.

    “Who are you to say, that those observations are the only right ones and there couldn’t happen something totally different, when conducting such an experiment?” – and who are you to say that Im not right? I thought we had freedom of opinion? If you want to believe the Hadron Collider will destroy the world then fine, you post your ideas, I post mine and people can make up their own minds. If someone just reads one side then they hardly get a balanced opinion do they? (Debate 101)

    You then said “fundamentalism and not a bit better then christian or islamic fundamentalism. You just think, you have the only truth, as you deduct it by logic, but you can’t be sure.” – Which in my opinion is a cheap way of trying to stifle a view you dont want to agree with. Emotive words there, with the hope that you in some way can compare an opinion on the Hadron Collider with religious extremism. Very very poor.

    “…that mankind has no impact on the climate is in my eyes simply stupid” – This is what you claimed I said, what is wrong with you? is English not your first language? What I actually said was “global warming is the fault of mankind.” (in the sense that it wasnt.

    If, instead of misquoting me and asking me, I would have explained. Climate change/global warming/climate shift whatever you want to call it, is a natural event in the Earths “evolution” throughout its history, it gets warm, it goes cold, it balances out. This event has nothing to do with mankind, its the way our planet “works” now mankind MAY have sped up this process, but the actual event happens regardless. Anyway I digress, we are talking about the Hadron Collider so Ill continue with your post.

    You claimed I said “…is 100% safe shows clearly, that you arn’t a scientist. Nothing is 100% sure in physics”
    I never said that, I said “we are sure” of course there’s a chaos element of sorts with ANY experiment. But my reference to sure was in the context of countering the scare mongers who claim a quantum singularity will be formed that will swallow up the world, or the ones who believe that the Miyans have somehow predicted the switchon of the Hadron Collider. – Please quote me correctly.

    Finally you say “at i actually wanted to say is, Openbytes, get down from your high horse and see, that your eletist and superior intellect is just another form of religious believe. If you are truely open minded, you can let have others their opinions and not push them into stereotypes. Scientists are no supreme beeings, they are just humans.”

    You seem to take great pleasure in putting words into the psots of others, I have not ever been on a “high horse” if I have then its only because you have placed me there. As I said on Ann’s response maybe Ive overestimated the level of reasoning skills people who reading this blog have. Is this a conspiracy one? If so I can then understand and move on quickly. I started posting on this thread because I thought people would like to hear the other side of the debate, as well as an “end of the world “one. Maybe I was wrong.

    Lordhaxor, you have really given me no challenge in responding to you. At least if you are going to try to engage me in debate, read my posts properly, if you cant understand them, at the very least quote them correctly. Oh and try not to stereotype again, lest you be called a hypocrite.

  30. Ann

    openbytes, you know I can say same about your comment as you said of mine, that you didn’t really address what I said. But, I don’t think that is the case. You just didn’t want to address the issues I brought up.

    It made a comment, originally, about what your faith in government. I didn’t mention “climate change,” UFOs, end times etc. And who is “Hadron Collider”? Why should I care? And, your educational career and current employment means nothing to me, why should it? We’re talking about what is being said here! So, why did bring this up?

    Your type argument is, “if you can’t win them over with facts, blind them with a lot of unrelated stuff.”

    The original issue is your faith in government, which I feel is a bit … whatever. Like I said originally some day, you’ll wake up and smell carcinogenic petrochemicals in the air. (hint!) I didn’t intend to convince you, but I do suggest you read more than Hadron Collider to get a good grasp on our corporate American reality.

  31. openbytes

    LOL, good try, but yet again you have failed to understand the response. The part about my career was not aimed at you per say, but as a response to a theme that I may have had something to do with the experiment or the government. If you noticed my typing style does change when addressing your post and the readers as a whole.

    You said “Your type argument is, “if you can’t win them over with facts, blind them with a lot of unrelated stuff.” – My response is, if you want I can, but to be fair, you didnt even seem to realize that we were talking about the particle experiments being conducted. Instead of silly theories about singularities, if you wish I can take you back to basics and give you a better understanding on the subject. As I said before, I believed I was speaking to a closed mind audience, so I didnt see the point. If you would like me to explain some basics of what the experiments are involving and how they are working, I will.

    I confess I do not have a good grasp on corporate American reality (as Im from the UK) however, you still missed my point (for the second time) which was that whilst you are going on about the way the public is being exposed to dangerous chemicals in many forms, you are blissfully avoiding the fact that when we didnt have these chemicals in the environment, it was at a time when life expectancy was alot lower than it is today. I put it to you your argument is irrelevant. If the average life expectancy had dropped compared to that of 100 years ago, I may have agreed with you. The fact that it hasnt, has now given us the problem that people are living too long and society is having to take the financial strain for longer, gives no worth to whatever anti-government rant you are currently on.

    You said “And who is “Hadron Collider”? ” – I thought that you realized that this thread was about the experiment. My “faith in government” I thought was you having a go at me defending the subject that this thread is about. Maybe I was wrong.

    If you want to avoid my questions fine. I ask though that you answer this. If you are so anti-government/corporation/chemicals what are you doing wasting your time posting on a thread TRYING to discuss the implications of a massive particle experiment. This has nothing to do with your crusade. Please could you maybe answer this?

    I have read and re-read your posts in the hope that I misinterpreted something, but it really does just appear that you’ve entered into a topic you know nothing about with an off-topic rant about a subject thats not related. I suggest YOU do some more reading, so that you can actually post in a topic with something relevant.

  32. lordhaxor

    Lordhaxor, the debate is above people coming from a half knowledge and in that “making up facts to suit their own ends” you my friend proved that on your second line, by saying that I was claiming to be a scientist. Where did I say that?

    Yes, I am sorry, I missread that.

    Secondly, or maybe firstly, both you and Ann dont seem to like stereo types or in your case people who are narrow minded, yet you presumed I was male.

    I didn’t knew your gender and the first thing a big part of people will use is the most used gender form for a personal pronoun and that is at last for my mothers language the male form. That is not stereotypeing but learned behaviour.

    … and who are you to say that Im not right? I thought we had freedom of opinion? – Sure we have freedom of speech but in a normal debate it is not permitted by common etiquette to insult others for having another opinion. Example? The only black hole is the one between the ears of anyone who thinks that this experiment has ANY chance of causing problems. Take a look for a minute at the world we live in. For me, that is a personal attack not voicing an opinion.

    If you want to believe the Hadron Collider will destroy the world then fine, you post your ideas, I post mine and people can make up their own minds.

    Exactly, just that I do not believe that the LHC will do anything harmfull.

    Which in my opinion is a cheap way of trying to stifle a view you dont want to agree with. Emotive words there, with the hope that you in some way can compare an opinion on the Hadron Collider with religious extremism. Very very poor.

    By no means do I compare anything concerning the LHC to fundamentalism. I said, that stating “nothing will go wrong” and everyone elses concerns are insignificant because we “know” that nothing will happen, is fundamentalism. You don’t let others have their concerns as they are just ridiculous pipe dreams of anti technology hippies (Yes, exageration here, I don’t care).

    This is what you claimed I said, what is wrong with you? is English not your first language? What I actually said was “global warming is the fault of mankind.” (in the sense that it wasnt. – Good pass. It seems you had a stereotype going on here too. I am in fact not at all a native english speaker. For the second part, well yeah, I probably read that one wrong or did not put enough thought in it. I know that Earth has climatic changes and for me the actionism to suddenly turn into the green direction is kinda the wrong way, but anyway, I understood your sentence as in “mankind has no impact at all”, which is, after reading your words again, wrong. Sorry for that.

    You claimed I said “…is 100% safe shows clearly, that you arn’t a scientist. Nothing is 100% sure in physics”
    I never said that, I said “we are sure” of course there’s a chaos element of sorts with ANY experiment. But my reference to sure was in the context of countering the scare mongers who claim a quantum singularity will be formed that will swallow up the world, or the ones who believe that the Miyans have somehow predicted the switchon of the Hadron Collider. – Please quote me correctly.

    You got me there. You did not say 100% sure, but with your response you show exactly what I wanted to say in the first place. Why counter scare mongers with elitist and snotty responses?

    Get a grip! If you needed brain surgery and you had the choice of it being done by a Surgeon or someone who had read a few articles on the subject, who would you trust?

    Without going into Physics and explaining why it is safe (as I dont have the energy and Ive a feeling im talk to a 90% closed mind group)

    But I understand, insulting and stereotypeing (90% closed minded, how do you come up with such numbers? Probably some statistical analysis of higher reaches, which normal human beeings don’t understand anyway, so no need to explain) is a lot easier, then coming down from your high horse (and that is, what I read from your text) and talk to people in a normal way. Explain, why it is safe, why scientists think, that they are sure etc. That would be a lot better, then firing back at the scare mongers with their own weapons.

    You seem to take great pleasure in putting words into the psots of others, I have not ever been on a “high horse” if I have then its only because you have placed me there. As I said on Ann’s response maybe Ive overestimated the level of reasoning skills people who reading this blog have.

    And that is not coming from the back of a huge horse? Sorry, but for me (and i would guess quite some other people, yet I will exclude them, as I do not know about them) that is exactly the definition of being on a high horse.

    Is this a conspiracy one? If so I can then understand and move on quickly. I started posting on this thread because I thought people would like to hear the other side of the debate, as well as an “end of the world “one. Maybe I was wrong.

    That is your decision. And if you would have read my first post, you would know, that we have the same opinion about the LHC and probably technology and science aswell.

    Lordhaxor, you have really given me no challenge in responding to you. At least if you are going to try to engage me in debate, read my posts properly, if you cant understand them, at the very least quote them correctly. Oh and try not to stereotype again, lest you be called a hypocrite.

    Yes, Mr. teacher, I will try to grasp the infinite wisdom of your posts. If you throw stones be free of errors yourself.

  33. openbytes

    I am free of errors, and Ive yet to see any of mine you point out.

    Thank you for calling me Mr Teacher, as in your case that is relevant. What is wrong with you? After highlighting to you that you were misquoting me, you do it again. This time by censoring out some of my text so that my message gets distorted into what you want it to say.

    In regards to me saying about a 90% closed mind audience. My actual quote was “Ive a feeling im talk to a 90% closed mind group”

    Now, as Im assuming the role of teacher, Ill have to break it down. Notice the words “Ive a feeling”? What this means is that its my opinion (or my feeling) its a 90% closed mind group. I stated nothing as fact. What you quoted of me was “90% closed mind group” to try to imply that I was stating that as a fact you and also tried to add “Probably some statistical analysis of higher reaches,” in order to belittle what you were claiming I had said.

    Again a cheap trick, but easily exposed as my original post is still here, and at best you will come across to a reader as someone who hasnt read properly whats been said, and at worst a liar.

    At least Ann was arguing about something totally different, unaware of the topic at hand. You, whilst jumping on the bandwagon of a debate have created an argument with those you already agreed with. Bizarre.

    This blog isnt some form of Monty Python sketch is it?

    I neither care nor am interested in if anyone thinks Im on a high horse. Lordhaxor (which although you have a scener style name, I can tell youre not a scener) I am also going to presume that you are blissfully unaware of how dangerous these type of blogs can be, and why, if need be, these silly theories are brought down by an intimidating style.

    Whats wrong with the people on these blogs? You have a user called Middletown BMX who claims to be a youth, who appears genuinely scared by these silly stories and ideas. Do you think thats ok? Do you think its ok for impressionable people to be scared about the world ending? I wonder how many people who havent posted are frightened because theyve believed these wild theories about Miyans and god knows what.

    I will give an example. If an Asberges suffer was to read a comment about the world ending, they would probably believe it. Is that nice? Do you condone that? If the theory had been based on a real danger, then of course, thats another matter. But when you have silly threads like this talking about ends of the world, Myans, aliens, parallel universes and UFO’s (all in relation to the HD experiments) someone needs to give the other view, and all challenge these silly remarks.

    Yes, I may come down hard with my posting style. I may be on a high horse, but if it stops just one impressionable person from being frightened by these conspiracy theory fools then so be it.

    In the next few weeks, Ill be visiting all these silly sites, with “the world will end when the first collision occurs” and have a good laugh at them.

  34. openbytes

    Lordhaxor I forgot to mention, when you said “I will try to grasp the infinite wisdom of your posts.”

    I really hope you do. But if you cant grasp the wisdom at least read and quote me correctly.

  35. openbytes

    Oh and sorry for a third post, but I notice another little gem in your text (It gets confusing when you use the quote tag as Im using some terminal software that doesnt identify it properly and can misplace some of the text.

    In relation to my question about if English was your first language, You said “Good pass. It seems you had a stereotype going on here too. I am in fact not at all a native english speaker. For the second part, well yeah, I probably read that one wrong or did not put enough thought in it. I know that Earth has climatic changes and for me the actionism to suddenly turn into the green direction is kinda the wrong way, but anyway, I understood your sentence as in “mankind has no impact at all”, which is, after reading your words again, wrong. Sorry for that.”

    No, i didnt have a stereotype going on. THAT IS WHY I ASKED. I asked that question because I could not believe anyone could repeatedly misquote and misrepresent anyone as much as you do and have English as a first language. It explains then somewhat why you repeatedly misquote me, but wouldnt it be better not to quote anyone at all if thats the case? I dont quite understand the “good pass” part of your comment, but I have a feeling it was an attempt to lessen your own misquoting and generate sympathy for the fact that English isnt your first language.

    If what you claim is true, maybe in future it would be prudent to mention that early on in the conversation, so that the person typing to you is aware. Isnt that fairer for both you and them?

    I would like though to see your reasons for deleting the first part of my text when you quoted my “90%” statement, as that wasnt a lack of understanding, that was blatant censorship to fit my words to what you were trying to say.

    This, at the end of the day is all very silly. I really have no need to debate with someone who already agrees with me. Once Ann has read up on the Hadron Collider she can make a return and somehow blame its great evil on a government.

    I would though appreciate an explanation as to your latest misquotes and censorship though.

  36. lordhaxor

    Just to start, in my opinion you are the most arrogant person I have met in a long time. Why I have this opinion?

    I am free of errors, and Ive yet to see any of mine you point out.

    This, at the end of the day is all very silly. I really have no need to debate with someone who already agrees with me.

    Anyway, on to your responses. I just answer them in the order they appear. Oh and I censor again, I wont quote everything you say, silly me.

    In regards to me saying about a 90% closed mind audience. My actual quote was “Ive a feeling im talk to a 90% closed mind group”

    Oh I am fully aware of that.

    Now, as Im assuming the role of teacher, Ill have to break it down. Notice the words “Ive a feeling”? What this means is that its my opinion (or my feeling) its a 90% closed mind group. I stated nothing as fact. What you quoted of me was “90% closed mind group” to try to imply that I was stating that as a fact you and also tried to add “Probably some statistical analysis of higher reaches,” in order to belittle what you were claiming I had said.

    First of all, I did not quote you. You see any quotation marks? Anything to identify this as a normal quote? I simply tried to emphasise on the fact, that you think 90% are closed minded here, even though you don’t know half of them (and probably a lot less). Stereotyping anyone? And nowhere did I say, that you know for a fact that 90% are closed minded. Now tell me, who is misinterpreting whom? You just read what you want. And yes, I belittled your assumption, just because it was out of the blue. You don’t like, what people think and believe here, so they have to be 90% closed minded. That, for me, is stereotyping.

    Again a cheap trick, but easily exposed as my original post is still here, and at best you will come across to a reader as someone who hasnt read properly whats been said, and at worst a liar.

    You name it. It is not a trick if the source is two scrolls away, not to mention that it was not ment as a trick but as a reminder of your nature ( <– that is an assumption aswell, because I do not know you, just the little you present here).

    At least Ann was arguing about something totally different, unaware of the topic at hand. You, whilst jumping on the bandwagon of a debate have created an argument with those you already agreed with. Bizarre.

    Oh you must have misunderstood me. There is exactly one thing I agree with you and that is the safety of the LHC. On everything else the discussion is going on about we totally differ, but that seems to have slipped your grasp.

    This blog isnt some form of Monty Python sketch is it?

    You accuse me that I belittle you, but doing it yourself is ok. Who is the hypocrite here?

    I neither care nor am interested in if anyone thinks Im on a high horse. Lordhaxor (which although you have a scener style name, I can tell youre not a scener) I am also going to presume that you are blissfully unaware of how dangerous these type of blogs can be, and why, if need be, these silly theories are brought down by an intimidating style.

    Oh another misinterpretation about what I know and what i don’t know. Blogs are a chance of modern media and a curse at the same time. Everyone can voice their opinion and everyone can basically write anything they want, be it the truth or not (darn, another thing we agree with, raise my above statement to two please). But it is they way how you deal with those things. You can shout and scream and voice your own opinion with anger (your style) or you can reason and debate on a normal level, treating the others with respect.

    What I truely do not understand is Lordhaxor (which although you have a scener style name, I can tell youre not a scener). What scene are you talking about? That name is just some random nickname with a little inside story and has nothing to do at all with my interests/scene knowledge/peer group/whatever you thought was behind it. But maybe you can enlighten me for which scene this is a typical nickname and especially why you think I am not a “scener”.

    Whats wrong with the people on these blogs? You have a user called Middletown BMX who claims to be a youth, who appears genuinely scared by these silly stories and ideas. Do you think thats ok? Do you think its ok for impressionable people to be scared about the world ending? I wonder how many people who havent posted are frightened because theyve believed these wild theories about Miyans and god knows what.

    And another thing we agree, three things already, maybe there will be more? Back on topic. The youth should not be scared by those topics, but they should learn to deal with it. That is called “Medienkompetenz” (media skills, sorry for the rough translation, I truely do not know the english word for that). Many youths are sitting infront of personal computers and are left alone there. They do not have the knowledge to discern what is truth and what is not. To be honest, not even I do know the difference all the time and I am a bit older. So basically the idea is to school them, to make them able to differentiate and to learn that not everything out there has to be true.

    And now compare your method vs. some of the other propaganda pages. You say, everything is wrong and my theory is correct. You don’t want to explain now why, as You are to lazy/think they wont understand/whatever other reason there is, but they should just trust you, as you do not make errors and your theory is logical and correct.

    The others write posts about their concerns, give details (it doesn’t matter if they are true or not, they are there), explain the reasons, etc.

    And here comes the youth, easily impressable and easily misslead. He sees your posting, he is reminded of his teacher/parents and probably not pleased. Either he reads on (I somehow think that wont be the case very often) or he just skips the posting as it is not easy to read and is more like a lecture. Next he sees some blog about some mystic theory with underwelling messages about whatever. It is filled with pictures and detailed explanations. That is enthralling and he will stick to it and read it.

    What will remain in the end? He will probably have forgotten your post and will communicate with others about his findings in the other page. See the problem? Do not bash others, try to reason and explain yourself, then you will be heard. And no, snotty comments are not reasoning.

    I will give an example. If an Asberges suffer was to read a comment about the world ending, they would probably believe it. Is that nice? Do you condone that? If the theory had been based on a real danger, then of course, thats another matter. But when you have silly threads like this talking about ends of the world, Myans, aliens, parallel universes and UFO’s (all in relation to the HD experiments) someone needs to give the other view, and all challenge these silly remarks.

    I have no clue, why you took someone suffering from Asperger syndrom as example, but ok. They will probably believe movies and news and whatever will come to their attention. Yet my knowledge about asperger is not enough to really comment on that one. Though I would guess that any person suffering from any form of autismn is probably not really giving a shit about UFOs or such things. They mostly live in their world which is heavily invaded by unfiltered impressions by their surrounding. Where is the difference between the truth or some missinformation for them, they will probably be scare by both of them. I don’t really see your argument there, but maybe you enlighten me.

    Yes, I may come down hard with my posting style. I may be on a high horse, but if it stops just one impressionable person from being frightened by these conspiracy theory fools then so be it.

    See, and that is where we differ. I do not think, that your form of arguing will stop anyone. I think it will produce quite the opposite as they will be feel detered from your posts.

    In the next few weeks, Ill be visiting all these silly sites, with “the world will end when the first collision occurs” and have a good laugh at them.

    And again, you make fun of others, you ridicule their opinions. That way you will just show one thing. That you are an elitist snob with a bad attitude.

    Lordhaxor I forgot to mention, when you said “I will try to grasp the infinite wisdom of your posts.” I really hope you do. But if you cant grasp the wisdom at least read and quote me correctly.

    Didn’t I accept your arguments, where I misunderstood you? There is one thing, to show someone he is wrong. But to keep going on about it is something else. It doesn’t show cleverness.

    Oh and sorry for a third post, but I notice another little gem in your text (It gets confusing when you use the quote tag as Im using some terminal software that doesnt identify it properly and can misplace some of the text.

    Might I propose using w3m or lynx? Both display blockquotes quite normaly.

    No, i didnt have a stereotype going on. THAT IS WHY I ASKED. I asked that question because I could not believe anyone could repeatedly misquote and misrepresent anyone as much as you do and have English as a first language. It explains then somewhat why you repeatedly misquote me, but wouldnt it be better not to quote anyone at all if thats the case? I dont quite understand the “good pass” part of your comment, but I have a feeling it was an attempt to lessen your own misquoting and generate sympathy for the fact that English isnt your first language.

    Where to start? No matter how you phrase it, that was a stereotype. You could not believe a native speaker would misquote and misinterpret that much, so you first assumption was “native speaker”. Next came the conclusion, that I might not be a native speaker, so you ask the question. Yet your first assumption was “native speaker” and your answers were based around that assumption. That is for me a stereotype.

    Next the not quoting at all part. Sorry but you are not really in the position to propose something like that to me. You are neither my mother, nor my teacher nor someone I feel the need to respect as much to comply to that request. You kinda imply: “Shut your mouth if you are not a native speaker”. Wow, you really have an ego going on there. The good pass part was about you giving me the basis for my arguments. You don’t see them, but that is not really my problem.

    If what you claim is true, maybe in future it would be prudent to mention that early on in the conversation, so that the person typing to you is aware. Isnt that fairer for both you and them?

    Yah sure, want my vita too? There is just one thing to say to this request: ridiculous. Not to mention that you question my integrity by your words. You disqualify yourself as a respectable debating adversary.

    I would like though to see your reasons for deleting the first part of my text when you quoted my “90%” statement, as that wasnt a lack of understanding, that was blatant censorship to fit my words to what you were trying to say.

    I allready answered that one.

    I still stand to my first conclusion. You are on a high horse, schooling everyone around you. Yet you do not really school anyone as you are only talking about how high your wisdom is and how bad everyone else is understanding your points. You do not share your wisdom.

  37. openbytes

    LOL. Let me first clear something up: “This blog isnt some form of Monty Python sketch is it?”

    Notice the word blog? I am referring to the whole package not in particularly your posts, but the collective attitude. If Id wanted to belittle you, Id have said “Your not trying to engage me in some sort of Monty Python Sketch are you?”

    Lets look at the facts. You have started a argument with something you agree with. Ann posts here not understanding or knowing about the topic that this thread is about. Other people are posting weird theories about black holes and the end of the world. See now why I said “blog” its the whole package, not one individual. T

    What I said about you telling people that English was not your first language was in order for you to be given some allowance for misunderstanding of text (you then wouldnt have had to appologise to me earlier) and it would also make people type in a clearer way (hopefully) I never used the word native speaker as I find the term both insulting and racist. I repeat again, I asked you if English was your first language. If you want the real stereotype I had it was I believed I was talking to a young person, and if that was the case would have terminated the conversation (if you had turned around and said English was)

    That being said, your English appears to have improved considerably since our last conversation, either that is as a result of you taking time to make a measured response or you have again mislead us as to the level of your English skills.

    “You disqualify yourself as a respectable debating adversary.” – Look people can read this as much as you and I can. Ive yet to see a whole group of people jump to your defense (if what I said was so bad, afterall I had to tell Ann I didnt know anything about US Corporate issues and I was from the UK)

    I am not sure now who or what you are debating about. Youve proved your integrity by misquoting me, giving some story about English not being your first language and then dramatically improving on your typing style in the next post.

    You failed to understand me again with the comment about the Monty Python Sketch, and the reason why I still argue with you now is that I am enjoying watching you dig yourself out of holes that you make yourself.

    “in my opinion you are the most arrogant person I have met in a long time” – Thank you very much. But lets let other people decide by reading through the posts, shall we? Not that it bothers me one way or another.

    and I think the better term would be “conversed with” not “met”. We are on a digital medium and thankfully wont have to meet.

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